Chris Evans & Jeremy Renner give 2 very different apologies on Black Widow

Chris Evans

Marvel must be nervous. Avengers: Age of Ultron comes out next Friday, and their beautiful cast went from charming to messy. Chris Evans and Jeremy Renner whipped out their dude-bro personas to “joke” about that “wh0re and slut Black Widow, who had the nerve to date someone besides Cap or Hawkeye. Renner’s remarks (and Evans’ eager agreement) played like two guys dissing a woman who won’t hand over her digits. Or guys who slut-shame women after they date them simply because they’re not together anymore.

Renner’s response to the journo’s questions showed his true nature, and Evans’ instant, merry laughter was disappointing. Add that to Evans’ sloshed dance vibe for this whole tour. I wanted to shout, “Joss Whedon, come get your boys.” But Joss is busy coping with backlash to his old-fashioned rape joke in the movie. There was also a Graham Norton appearance where Elizabeth Olsen said Scarlet Witch had “gypsy-like” style. Norton warned her against using that term, and Renner and Mark Ruffalo chanted “gypsy” in response. Dude bros strike again.

Evans and Renner both issued apologies for their Black Widow comments. My initial assumption was that Marvel’s PR wrote these apologies, but I’ve changed my mind. They’re both very different responses, which tells me that they did come from the guys. Renner acts like an #unapologeticbro, and Evans takes the situation more seriously. I’m not excusing Evans at all, but his apology comes across as pretty sincere:

Jeremy Renner: “I am sorry that this tasteless joke about a fictional character offended anyone. It was not meant to be serious in any way. Just poking fun during an exhausting and tedious press tour.”

Chris Evans: “Yesterday we were asked about the rumors that Black Widow wanted to be in a relationship with both Hawkeye and Captain America. We answered in a very juvenile and offensive way that rightfully angered some fans. I regret it and sincerely apologize.”

[From People]

Well I’m glad they issued separate apologies instead of a canned, joint statement. Here’s my interpretation of how these two feel about the backlash.

Renner: “Marvel told me to apologize. I don’t think I said anything wrong. All of this is make-believe anyway, and you people exhaust me. Sorry, not sorry.”

Evans: “Marvel told me to apologize. I’m embarrassed at how my inner douche-bro slipped out. My mom fought for feminism, so I should have known better. Man, you’re not going to forget about this for awhile. Ahhh. I’ll be self-flagellating in the corner. I’m sorry.”

Chris Evans

Jeremy Renner

Chris Evans

Film still courtesy of Marvel; screencaps courtesy of YouTube; Fame/Flynet & WENN

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248 Responses to “Chris Evans & Jeremy Renner give 2 very different apologies on Black Widow”

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  1. blue marie says:

    Renner’s a douche with that non-apology, at least Evans owned it.

    • goofpuff says:

      I agree. Renner is the jerk and I think Chris was drunk/high going along. doesn’t make it better but man boy has issues.

      • Mia4S says:

        @Goofpuff come on! You make Evans sound like a six year old following his big brother! This is not the first time he’s made douchbro comments. I’m sorry if he disappointed you but he’s a jerk! It doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy Captain America, hell I still love Hawkeye!

      • Eve says:

        @ Mia4S:

        Do you like Hawkeye? Seriously? Well, you’ll love Avengers: Age of Ultron then. There’s more Hawkeye than I asked for (he’s the one character I don’t like in the whole Avengers’s universe). Not only he has actual lines in this, but they gave him a background — simple, but effective.

        I’m going to see it again this weekend (if there are tickets still available and/or if I dare to face the weekend crowds).

        *The scenes between Natasha Romanoff and Bruce Banner are very moving, she’s not objectified at all;

        **The Vision is…AWESOME;

        ***Tony Stark is the same petty a**hole we already know he is;

        ****I liked the twins more than I expected. Really. Thought Scarlet Witch was a total badass;

        *****Can’t say anything anymore or I’ll end up spoiling the movie for everyone.

        P.S.: Ok, there’s one funny scene where her breasts play a part, but it didn’t seem offensive to me (just really, really funny).

      • Eve says:

        And Rhodey!!!! Oh, my god, I almost forgot about how funny Rhodey is.

      • V4Real says:

        Well at least,Renner didn’t give the ole “I’m sorry if I offened, but said I’m sorry I offended”

      • Mia4S says:

        @Eve, I kind of do love Hawkeye! No idea why!

        Black Widow’s role sounds fine, just really cliche. I find her boring though, just another Catwoman-type femme fatale with a tragic backstory. Meh. I really don’t care if she gets her own movie, bring on Captain Marvel.

        I think I’ll enjoy the movie. The reviews (both professional and not) have only been OK to good so my expectations are lowered. That’s a good thing.

      • MtnRunner says:

        Eve, you’re getting me excited to see this movie. I was losing the stoke in the last few days. The huz and I will be seeing the first showing on the 30th. Woot woot!

      • Eve says:

        @ Mia4S:

        Well, I’ve seen mostly positive reviews…*shrugs*

        But the “tone” is definitely darker than the first — or less colourful, as I said. Like, it sets the mood for “Captain America: Civil War” and “Avengers: Infinity War”.

        Not sure how this will affect the box office. I read at Deadline and Boxoffice.com that it has been tracking around 10% higher than the first one. But it may go the way you said downthread.

        I, however, am definitely seeing it again.

        @ MtnRunner:

        You won’t be disappointed, I promise. And if — after seeing the movie — you still find it “meh”, you can lash out on me.

      • FLORC says:

        Black Widow is the one that is just awful. Her character has always seemed so forced just to have a female.

        And I might get some backlash for this…
        If a guy moved through girls with such haste and while they’re all in a working relationship of a team they worked closely as i’d think he was a bit “loose” too!
        Hell, I called my husband’s pre meeting me days wh0rin8 around. Because I called it like I saw it.

      • The Other Pinky says:

        Such ignorance. Black Widow HAS NOT worked her way through the “guys at the office”. A huge part of why we are so pissed is because it’s not even true and douche canoes like Renner who see it that way are the type who can’t see a female character in any terms other than love interest.

        In the first Avengers she is paired with Hawk Eye by SHIELD for WORK! There’s no indication that those characters are knocking boots. At all!!!! In Winter Soldier she is brought in by Nick a Fury to work with Cap. Not only is there no indication of a romance, she spends a good part of their banter trying to find HIM his first post freeze girlfriend. The only half way titilating fact about them is when they kiss to avoid being detected by Hydra agents and even that is not treated like a great coming to reality moment. Bruce in Age of Ultron is her first acknowledged connection.

        All the different Avengers pairings have chemistry. When it’s two guys, Bruce and Tony or Cap and Thor, it’s cute and births harmless fan fics. Nobody suggests they are whores when the pairings are switched around? Nobody is calling Tony Stark a whore over the focus on he and Cap now even though it’s given birth to the most angst you bromance fanfics in ages.

    • Cecada says:

      Wow Renner really has let it all hang out lately, all his inner doucheiness. I sincerely hope it destroys what’s left of his career. Jerk.

      • The Other Pinky says:

        I freaking loathe Jeremy Renner now. I got to the end of that first line about how she is a fictitious character with an intense dislike for him. But when I read how he, a minor character in the movie is just sooooo exhausted from this tedious promotional tour, I flipped to downright hate. F…. off Jeremy Renner!

      • mia girl says:

        Screw this guy.
        As I said in yesterday’s days post, Renner is the parsley of the Avenger’s cast.

        And boy, Parsley is bitter.

      • Eve says:

        @ Mia girl:

        But…but…I like parsley. And Brussels sprout, and rucola (arugula) and broccoli; There, I said it: I. LOVE. BROCCOLI.

        :(

      • FLORC says:

        Parsley is a staple herb! It’s not always needed, but never ruins a meal :D

      • Flan says:

        I never liked Renner as Hawkeye; it has always seemed like very strange casting to me.

        Now that I think about it; I’ve never liked Renner in Avengers promos eithers. All the others have had several charming, funny moments.

        He, zip zero.

    • Mia4S says:

      In a weird way I think it’s the opposite; Renner owned it (for the worse), Evans rolled over.

      @Bedhead you do know they’d have their own publicists? Evans’ got his publicist to write his, Renner remains Renner. :-/

      • Jannie says:

        I don’t think Evans rolled over. I think he is genuinely remorseful over his choice of words. Like, he doesn’t think before he speaks, and probably called his mom crying over the embarrassment. Now, Renner? He just doesn’t give a f-ck. About anything. Period.

      • katie says:

        Ha! Renner really doesn’t give a f-ck! I think if he had hurt a real person he would be mortified and would do all he could to make amends, but he clearly thinks this whole thing is ridiculous and despite being forced to apologize he has made his feelings clear. He is a rough, unapologetic bloke with minimal interest in the Hollywood PR machine and I like that. The day the men and women who work with him stop saying what a nice, genuine, hardworking guy he is, then I might worry a bit more about this sort of thing.

    • ava7 says:

      I find Renner repulsive. I can’t understand why he keeps getting put in high-profile movies. Why?

      • Amy says:

        Repulsive! Yes. I’ve been trying to think of a way to describe Renner and that’s just it. He’s repulsive. I’d love to know what Marvel saw in him. Did they just settle on him? He doesn’t seem to have any valuable qualities. (Sorry, his Hawkeye is the lamest/weakest character of the bunch).

      • Emma - the JP Lover says:

        @Amy, who wrote: “Repulsive! Yes. I’ve been trying to think of a way to describe Renner and that’s just it. He’s repulsive. I’d love to know what Marvel saw in him. Did they just settle on him? He doesn’t seem to have any valuable qualities. (Sorry, his Hawkeye is the lamest/weakest character of the bunch).”

        I totally agree. I can think of several actors who would have made a better Hawkeye than Renner. Each of the other actors BRING IT to their characters/roles in spades. Renner brings absolutely nothing to the character/role and I don’t find him (as Hawkeye) the least bit believable.

      • PennyLane says:

        Yes! That is exactly the word. Repulsive.

        Thanks for providing the perfect descriptor for this person.

      • Lola says:

        I’m glad I’m not the only one to wonder this.

      • Ally says:

        Homely AND charmless. He has brought nothing to three franchises: Mission Impossible, Bourne and now this.

        Renner: #luckytobehere … So take it down ten notches, dummy.

      • fritanga says:

        He’s very well-connected in certain Hollywood circles. He’s a good actor, but not so much that he gets a pass for this blatant display of douchiness (especially as it was so baldly misogynistic).

    • Mel M says:

      For sure and the article I read about the apology last night had all commenters that think just like him. They were all screaming about no one being able to take a joke and being too sensitive and how men get blamed for everything and the death of comedy is near. Blah.

      • Flan says:

        Those are always the men who cry the loudest whenever a woman makes a joke about a man.

        They want to laugh at minorities, women, disabled people, but the moment someone makes a white guy joke, they’ll cry rivers of tears.

      • fritanga says:

        Yes, men have it so tough when everyone calls them on their sexism and misogyny. Poor little boys, life is SO HARD (especially when you have all the money, start all the wars, call all the shots, etc.),

    • Alicia says:

      Renner is a major douche. The thought of him raising a daughter sickens me. He’s a crash and burn waiting to happen. Renner’s career outside of the superhero movies is poor. His Bourne movie tanked as has anything else non-Avengers he stars in. Hopefully he’ll be off our radar soon.

    • seesittellsit says:

      Two sleaze bags in three-quarter time.

    • Anna says:

      I think they’re both douches but at least Renner owns his. Evans still wants to come across like the “good All American Boston Boy” and to me those are the ones we should watch out for the most.

      As for the Elizabeth comment I’m not sure if she reads the comics but Scarlett Witch is based on a Romani character (I haven’t seen the interview so I don’t know if she was referencing her comic character) so I don’t think her comments are that problematic. Though I think the movie might be problematic since her character and Quicksilver supposedly get their powers from a Nazi organization which is offensive since their parents are Romani and survived the Holocaust. It would’ve been better if they got their powers from somewhere else, but I haven’t seen the movie yet so idk.
      And Ruffalo seems pretty socially aware so I don’t think he was purposefully trying to be offensive, as for Renner….. He’s an idiot so I blame him for everything lol

  2. Kay says:

    Renner’s apology is the gross icing on top of this disgusting cake.

  3. Izzy says:

    I like Bedhead’s interpretations of the apologies.

    What I get from this is that Renner is the bigger douchecanoe. So, he was also the one chanting the g-word with Ruffalo on Graham Norton. My, my, Douchebro Renner is quite the little instigator. Maybe Marvel should think about pulling him back a little on the rest of this tour, since it’s rapidly devolving into a giant clusterf—.

    • Amelia says:

      He’s that kid at school who thought being a cool kid meant insulting everyone as much as possible rather than being a legitimately popular, decent person.
      Inevitably a few easily led, but on-the-whole nice kids get pulled along by the riptide as well until someone bollocks them and they realise what cockwombles they’ve been.

    • **sighs** says:

      So Evans is a douchecanoe and Renner is a douchecruiseship?

  4. Abbott says:

    This press tour is kind of a mess. Just send Scarlett and Hemsworth out there and call it a day.

    • Marty says:

      Really. Although it seems ScarJo keeps her ignorant and insenseitive remarks to print interviews.

    • MtnRunner says:

      This tour needs some SPADER.

      • Diana B says:

        Yes MTNRUNNER where is James?! We NEED James!

      • icerose says:

        Evans was better but to be honest neither of them have any excuse for what they said
        This tour needs TWH back to show them how it is done and but glad he is not part of the train wreck.
        I would not want my daughter to go to a film where the main female superhero is called a whore by a cast member
        The Graham Norton thing really annoyed me because not only was it biggotted it was an insult to Norton

      • Eve says:

        @ MtnRunner:

        There was a moment I wanted to make out with Ultron. Honestly.

      • MtnRunner says:

        Eve, good to see you here! Have you see his partner’s sculptures? Ooo la la… they would make my mother hot.

        http://lesliestefanson.com/

      • Eve says:

        Wasn’t he dating an actress?

        ETA: Ok, she used to be.

    • Flan says:

      They should get Tom Hiddleston out there with Hemsworth again (even if Loki is not in this movie); if there’s anyone who knows how to rock it, it’s him.

  5. jinni says:

    At least Evans sounds like he may actually be remorseful for his stupid behavior, Renner might as well not even released a statement. The level of “passive -aggressive, you guys (the people who are rightfully calling them out) are so dumb, eye-roll” in that statement is overwhelming. Why they didn’t replace him when the had the chance and actually hire someone that could make Hawkeye less of an afterthought, is beyond me.

    Also, Evans looks like a toddler having a meltdown next to his exhausted father in the last picture with the red shirt.

  6. InvaderTak says:

    Still disappointing.

  7. Bam32 says:

    Makes me miss Hiddleston so much more. This press tour is in shambles. RDJ walking out plus almost every other actor and actress doing something offside.
    Bring back dancing hiddles!

    • A.Key says:

      Right?

      It seems like the Avengers cast is just a bunch of douchebags playing cheesy comic book characters.

      Man the film industry is a mess.

      • Emma - the JP Lover says:

        @A.Key …

        Not to those of us who grew up reading “cheesy comic books” and waited patiently for the next installment to see how their favorite hero fared. :) Some nerds like DC Comics more than Marvel Comics and vice-versa. However, I like them both equally.

  8. serena says:

    LOL at your re-interpretations, I love them! We can all agree that they’re two charming big douches.

    • jinni says:

      There is nothing charming about Renner.

    • icerose says:

      There is nothing charming about misogynist language -I kind of liked Evans but this really put me off him-I will stick with Loki and Thor-there are two many other attractive actors who can actually act and who manage to avoid foot in mouth deseae

      • serena says:

        I didn’t say them being sexist was charming -at all- Normally, they can be charming, now they just look like two ass*oles.

  9. Lilacflowers says:

    No doubt Marvel is wishing for this press junket to finally end. Then they can gear up for promoting Ant-Man with Michael Douglas and Evangeline Lilly, because those two never go off script in interviews. Somewhere, a Marvel executive is kicking Whedon for cutting Tom Hiddleston out of AOU and sending out memos that Loki must now be in all MCU films and Tom must do all the marketing so that the media can focus on wild dancing and random Shakespeare spouting at animals and inanimate objects.

    • MtnRunner says:

      To think of all the flak he got here for his dancing bear routine. It would be a welcome change to have it now.

      That being said, the sooner he’s done with Marvel, the better. I’m way more excited about his other work coming out.

  10. Elisa the I. says:

    “Sorry, not sorry ” is epic and so true!

  11. Kylie says:

    And this is why Hiddleston should have been in the film. He actually seems like a good person. Or he is at least more aware of public image.

    • **sighs** says:

      He seems extremely self aware. Obviously not true for most of this cast.

      • InvaderTak says:

        He seems so self aware it’s painful. I think that’s why he rambles in purple prose so much. So eager to please and have everyone like him he over does it.

      • Miss Jupitero says:

        I’m with Invadertek here. Much as I love Hiddles, he is not Saint Hiddles, and I doubt that even mouth to mouth resuscitation from a naked Loki could save this dog of a press tour.

        He does not have foot in mouth disease, but when he turns on the needy mavhine, he can be annoying in his own way. Tame compared to this, I heartily agree, but still. I guarantee he will set eyes rolling at some point once he gets back to promoting.

      • A.Key says:

        Yep, but at least he’s smart enough to think before he talks.

      • **sighs** says:

        This^

      • Lilacflowers says:

        Annoying and offensive are too very different things.

      • Sara says:

        LOL, nobody is a saint, even Hiddleston as much as I like him but he does make things interesting.

        I rolled my eyes so many times when I watched Avengers 2, I don’t think even Tom has accomplished that many eye rolls.

      • Merritt says:

        He is not a saint, but he has so far demonstrated self-awareness. He also seems to know that a huge part of his fan base is made up of women and is mindful of that fact. Obviously that could all change and he could do/say something stupid in the future.

      • MtnRunner says:

        Yes to all of this. He has impeccable manners and knows how to avoid controversy with his statements. He may be an excitable piddling puppy who rambles on about Will Shakes, but if that’s the worst thing people can say about him, he’s better than most. His enthusiasm is infectious. He makes me laugh when he’s being all serious about his art, bless him.

        I can’t wait for Ant Man promo to start. I love me some P.RUDD.

      • Jaye says:

        Doubled-eged sword. Hiddleston’s very image aware so he always stays on script. Avoids brouhaha that way but with the side effect of coming off a bit generic.

      • Miss Jupitero says:

        I’ve reconsidered what I said above: yes, Tom decency and thoughtfulness are desperately needed…. everywhere.

        Any way to bottle this? Seriously, we are talking about really basic manners and common sense. There is no excuse for these men.

        That said… well I could say more about tom but it could turn into total thread hijack.

      • MtnRunner says:

        Nothin’ wrong with that, Miss J. Tom brings lightness to threads such as this and we’re missing him. Can’t wait until he stops working long enough to give a good, long form interview. We’ll have so much TOM to talk and giggle about.

    • Lola says:

      Hiddleston is not even on the same level than these two. They should have done a movie with just Loki, he’s amazing.

      • Miss Jupitero says:

        Memo to marvel: just fire everyone and give us a film with Tom playing all roles. You owe us.

    • jammypants says:

      *sigh* I miss him.

  12. Lucy2 says:

    Renner is probably a lost cause, but hopefully Evans really did learn from it. As disappointing as it is when something like that is said, it is always good to see people stand up and say “hey that’s not okay”.

  13. Nicole says:

    Evans is a follower not a believer? Lot of crappy stuff in history was done by followers.

  14. Sadie says:

    Renner’s “apology” almost annoys me more than the original comments. I find casual sexism upsetting, but it’s understandable that someone could slip up in that way. But sorry you were offended is not an apology, and pointedly bringing up that Black Widow is a fictional character is his way of saying STFU.

    • Nessa says:

      ^^THIS^^ so much.

    • Shambles says:

      Yup. All the “you’re whining about a fictional character” arguments all over the Internet yesterday made me punchy.

      • Lola says:

        Me too. It’s like, all characters are fictional anyway and I’ve never heard an actor say something like that.

    • jinni says:

      He’s so condescending.

      Also, I didn’t like how he tried to sort of blame the promotional tour being tedious for his behavior, like if doing his job weren’t so boring and trying he wouldn’t have said what he said. A if, he really thought he was helping out with comment by making things more interesting. He’s just an all around asshat. Also, if doing his job is so tedious, hopefully Marvel alleviates the problem by handing him his pink slip. Then he won’t have to be burdened by such dull work.

      • Anony says:

        Yeah poor baby doing interviews is so much harder than a real job

      • Flan says:

        What a whiner.

        Give someone else the Hawkeye role; he doesn’t fit well anyway.

        Someone more appreciative and less of an a**hat. Shouldn’t be hard to find.

    • Josefa says:

      This. Sadly, words like that are so deeply ingrained on our vocabulary I can understand why someone would casually slip them out while drunk. But that apology was so condescending and insencere, it pisses me off.

  15. Tiffany says:

    So, this is their way of saying that they are done with their contracts. They complained before so if they are released they can get back to the string of BO hits they had before Marvel….what they do not.

  16. CidySmiley says:

    What’s sad is that this doesn’t change anything. They say sorry and people shrug and go “okay. Good enough.” And it’s not. It’s just not. It’s so frustrating because although Evans apology seemed sincere you just know that Marvel forced them to do it. They wouldn’t have apologized if their hand wasn’t forced. And I don’t even think they are really sorry, especially not Renner. I think the problem is that they honestly don’t understand why people are upset.

    It’s the concept. Not the character.

    This press tour has been a disaster and really eye opening. I see a secret rehab stint and some PR training in their future.

    • mom2two says:

      I agree. It’s not like people are not going to go see Avengers now. You know those “apologies” (I have apologies in quotes because I don’t know what to call Jeremy Renner’s statement) were because Marvel made them do it. It’s obvious Renner thinks he said nothing wrong and Evans did the apology more gracefully because he was told to. I don’t really get Hollywood’s infatuation with Jeremy Renner at all, why is he in everything???
      You would think with all these stars on the press tour it would not be the mess it is…but here we are. At this point they should just send Chris Hemsworth and Scarlett out there and leave the rest of the mess at home.

      • CidySmiley says:

        I don’t think they should risk it! lol. I think they should just send everyone home. I mean, we thought Ruffalo would be okay and look what happened? His weird g-slur moment with that slug Renner (he is now slug Renner in my mind) they should just throw in the towel before their shoes come out of their mouths again.

    • Lola says:

      In my opinion this has caused a lot of harm. I know kids love those characters and look up to them, they get influenced by their opinion.
      I’m also sure few people won’t see this films as a result of all the racism and sexism of the actors but I suppose at least now we know what they’re really like.

  17. grabbyhands says:

    I think I would pretty much agree with your assessment-their apologies sound like them. And no PR team worth their money would let their client issue a bratty sounding non-apology like Renner’s. He sounds like a recalcitrant child, which is kind of rich considering that the Avengers films are the only reason anyone is even checking for him these days. It’s a good thing that this press tour is almost over-so messy! Why they thought it was a good idea to pair Evans with anyone other than Hemsworth or Johanssen (both of whom he has great chemistry with), I have no idea.

    • Miss M says:

      I think they paired Evans with renner because captain America is the most popular avenger (sorry tony stark) since the winter soldier , which it is the best movie they have made so far. They may have thought that placing the most likable avenger of the moment to the messiest actor who went through a very public divorce would erase renner’s unpopularity.

      Don’t change a team that is winning, Marvel! Put both Chris together and Scarlet with renner ( she will keep him in his place).

  18. Hannah says:

    Renner is an asshat. His apology is very dismissive. Nothing but excuses (press tour is exhausting) and minimizing the situation (it’s just a fictional character). He’s not sorry, and he’s making this our problem (we are all so easily offended). I can’t believe Marvel ever gave him a job.

    But, ya know, cue the fangirls who come along and go “OMG, he apologized! Can we just drop it now?!?!!!?!111! Nobody is ever happy!”

    • Flan says:

      Nah, that won’t be so much the fangirls, but the fanboys.

      The fangirls are disappointed, the fanboys are enraged that anyone is calling them out.

      But good job acting as if it’s all the ‘fangirls’ fault, while it was guys doing wrong here. Do something about your internalized sexism, Hannah.

  19. Kitten says:

    Even most “internet people” are still incredibly into these “boring white people”.

    Don’t believe me? Read the comments section on every other website that’s covering this story.
    Sadly, these guys aren’t going anywhere anytime soon.

    Also, didn’t everyone accuse GNAT of “derailing” the other thread for doing what you guys are doing? Why bring race into it when this is about misogyny and affects women of all colors?

    EDIT: Oh. comment disappeared. Nevermind, just kidding, etc.

    • CidySmiley says:

      Most Internet people definitely aren’t letting these guys go, I can agree with that. It’s like prime example of casual misogyny in every comment section of almost every article. It’s very gross.

  20. t.fanty says:

    Okay, I’m happy to sign off on the “Renner is an ass” part of this, but two things occur to me:
    1) Evans has never been anything but a very hot, kind of dumb frat-boy. People who express surprise at this, I think, are doing so because they can’t tell the difference between Evans and Cap.
    2) It’s BS to pick up on a word or phrase and freak out without considering the context. The gypsy example is Renner being an ass and he seems like a fairly toxic, high pressure guy who pulls other people onto his idiocy. But the “old timey rape joke” hysteria is just that. Stark is repeatedly portrayed in the movies as a douche, who repeatedly crosses the line and needs to be humbled. If the movies are building up to a stand-off between him and Cap, then this seems entirely consistent with characterization. And as I said yesterday, the question (and culture it stems from) was framed to objectify the black widow.

    To me, not thinking about the context is blind, media-fueled hysteria that resists real discourse in favor of taking instant offense.

    *hops off soapbox*

    • Kitten says:

      I’ve really loved all your comments on this, T. Fanty.

    • FLORC says:

      T.fanty
      Thank you for saying this!

    • Mayble says:

      Huh?

      • Kitten says:

        Context matters.
        People tend to ignore that very basic fact.

      • RobinDarkles says:

        @Kitten, so you’re saying we should dismiss what Evans and Renner said, because it was taken out of context? That’s pretty dismissive, and right on path of “it was just a joke”.

        I’m assuming you agree with Jeremy’s apology then? “It was just a fictional character…”

      • Franca says:

        I think she’s talking about the prima nocta joke in the movie, not Renner’s comments.

      • Kitten says:

        Ugh. Way to miss the point, Robin Darkles.

    • Miss M says:

      Fanty, thanks for bringing reason to the discussion.

    • I Choose Me says:

      Great comment t.fanty.

    • MtnRunner says:

      *Stands and claps*

    • Amie says:

      Can somebody please (in less wordy, soap-boxy terms) explain what T.Fanty is talking about?

      • Franca says:

        I haven’t seen the movie but I think she’s talking about the “prima nocta” joke Tony Stark makes in the movie, and that that is deliberate to make him seem like a douche because he and Cap will have a fight later on? Yes?

      • Amandadada says:

        Okay? What does that have to do with the real life Renner/Evans situation?

        The whole prima nocta/Tony Stark reference makes absolutely no sense and gives very little reason to what was said.

      • RightOnRhonda says:

        1. Those who are offended by the wh-re comments are only offended, because they can’t separate Chris Evans from Steve Rogers. We wouldn’t expect Rogers to speak about women that way, but because Chris is a hot, frat boy… it should come as no surprise.
        2. It’s bullsh-t to be offended so quickly over what was said (hysteria!), because we don’t take into consideration as to why it was said. For example, the reasoning (context) for Renner and the whole “gypsy” thing is that he is an ahole. For those who haven’t seen the movie, Stark mentions prima nocta, but he’s a douche, so that’s why that comes into play…

        I’m guessing, somewhere, there’s an obvious reason/context as to why Renner and Evans called Black Widow a slut and wh-re, though… She’s always objectified? I don’t know…

      • MtnRunner says:

        I agree with Fanty and Kitten that context matters. The journo asked a question that objectified Black Widow and assumes that as the token female, she must be f*cking one of the boys and phrased the question to assume that there was some kind of an internal war over her. Renner and Evans played along as the jealous bros that got dissed for the Hulk. It was meant to be a joke.

        I agree it was in poor taste and shouldn’t have been said. I agree that Renner has always come across as a douche and that Evens comes off as dumb frat boy. I agree that the larger discussion of misogyny and sexism is worthy discussion, but think there are better examples of it that don’t involve what was clearly supposed to be a joke within the context of the interview.

        That’s all I’m gonna say about this. Agree to disagree.

      • Kitten says:

        WOW. This got nasty rather quickly, huh?

      • FLORC says:

        RightonRhonda
        Just to clarify I’ve fully seperated the actor from the character. Captain America is super hot and awesome. Chris Evans would cry post coital and I would feel that shame that makes me want to quietly slide towards to door for a quick and quiet escape..

      • MtnRunner says:

        Kitten: Yes, especially on the prior thread. At least this one’s a little more balanced in the spectrum of opinion. Way too much knee jerk and crucification and not enough real discourse of the larger problem for which women are complicit.

    • Justine says:

      A soapbox? Really?

      What I got from you is that we should all chill out about this, because, 1. Evans is not Steve Rogers. 2. We took it out of context.

      • Amandadada says:

        I agree. I’m not understanding the praise for T. Fanty’s comment. Unless I’m reading it wrong. But, it just sounds like excuses are being made. There’s no reason or logic being brought into discussion. I read it exactly as you… We are all offended, because we (assumingly) hold Chris Evans to the same standards as Steve Rogers (which isn’t true), and we are mad over that. And, instead of being so quickly offended by two men calling a woman (real or not) derogatory words, we should sit back and have a deep discussion as to why those words were said. *insert eye roll here*

        I wish people would stop giving a positive spin to such a negative situation.

      • jammypants says:

        that’s a good point

      • Josefa says:

        RE Evans v/ Rogers: She said “suprise”, not “offense”. Several people commented that Chris’ behavior was very unlike himself. She’s saying, no, Evans has always been a dumb frat boy like that, and he’s not that different from Renner.

        RE prima nocte joke: It was written about in the article so it’s totally valid to comment on it.

      • Eve says:

        Thank you, Josefa.

      • RightOnRhonda says:

        @Josefa, She implied that people are basically offended, because they are surprised Chris isn’t a goody-goody boy scout. In reality, people are offended, because what he said was actually offensive. It has nothing to do with a character he portrays (Steve Rogers), or how other’s technically portray him (frat boy).

        On the other hand, sure, Chris does come off as the “dumb, frat boy”. However, he doesn’t (at least not very often) come off as misogynistic. That’s why everyone might be a bit surprised. T. Fanty is implying that being a frat boy = being hateful towards women, and (because of that) we shouldn’t be surprised by his choice of words. However, those two things don’t go hand in hand.

      • Josefa says:

        I was explaining what Fanty wrote, not saying that I agreed. I didn’t think of Evans as the mysoginistic type and tbh I still don’t. As I said above, words like that are deeply ingrained in our vocabulary and they might slip out when we’re drunk. Heck, I’ve used them myself, and I know it’s wrong. So I buy his apology as I can relate to it.

        And I think the frat boy stereotype is that of a straight male who likes drinking, partying and thinks of women as little more than sexual objects. When I say “typical frat bro”, that’s the image I have in my mind, at least.

      • Natalie says:

        Exactly, like what context? They are professionals who have received media training and should know better than to refer to a woman, fictional or not, as a whore. That is, unless she literally is a prostitute. Uh, even then maybe not.

        The context is they’re asshats riding highs in their careers and are surrounded by yes-men.

      • Eve says:

        I can totally understand the praise for her comment. But that’s mostly because it becomes very clear what she’s saying right from the beginning.

      • Miss Jupitero says:

        Ei am not at all “surprised” by Evans and I agree he is a dumb frat boy. I’ve never felt any investment in Captain America or Steve Raogers, so that part MN ears nothing to me.

        Where I am a rat hing Mt head is how that is an excuse and why people who otherwise know better want to make excuses for this ugly behavior. I also not buying into the “equally guilty” argument, given that women are the who pay in rape cultire, tjough I will say that some of the crap that comes from fandom has gotten pretty tiresome.

        Fwiw, I personally have had enough of “frat boy” behavior in grown men.

    • icerose says:

      Sorry but for many young girls is a super heroes model and they are few and far between and to see her described as a whore for entering into a relationship is a feminist issue.Being a dumb frat boy or a douche bag does not come with supposed character carry overs into PR or excuses that the question lead then towards that answer. It was just bad taste and unnecessary.

      • Flan says:

        Don’t apologize for your opinion. Women apologize too much all the time.

        “Sorry that I have an opinion that is not entirely yours”

        “Sorry that I walk on the street, while you’re walking there”

        “Sorry I don’t like it when you offend me.”

        Icerose, you are right and you don’t need to start with a ‘sorry’

      • jammypants says:

        Great point Flan. No point in starting on the defense when making an argument. Ice makes great arguments.

    • Izzy says:

      Fanty, I agree that Renner and Evans’s comments about the Black Widow were, in context, framed in a culture of objectifying and slut-shaming women. But that’s part of the problem. Regardless of it being a fictional character, it’s how they are talking about women in general, and this female character in particular, that is troublesome. She connected emotionally with a man who isn’t one of their characters; so, that makes her a slut?

      However, as I also pointed out yesterday, the idiot journo who was interviewing them was just as much a part of the problem, regardless of the fact that she herself is female. She even made a comment about BW being just the flirty sidekick. Way to minimize and trivialize.

      But yes, Evans has always come off as a dude-bro fratboy, even though he has had some “Steve Rogers moments” in real life (see: Betty White). And Stark’s prima nocte comment, well, that was a line written for a character, and it’s right in line with that character’s persona. We can save the sociological discussion on that for another thread.

      And finally, Renner just comes off like an a-hole all around here. Between this and the g-word stuff on the Graham Norton show, I just can’t with him. They could recast Hawkeye, and honestly, I wouldn’t bat an eyelash. And I LOVE the Avengers movies.

      /rant

      • Eve says:

        @ Izzy:

        Have you seen it already? I have. On April 22 (8 p.m. — but the theater had to make three more screenings available because the tickets were sold out days before that date; I bought mine on April 10).

        It’s less silly and colourful (literally) than the first one. More action-packed, too. Since it doesn’t have to introduce too many characters (just basically the twins — and I’m not talking about Johansson’s breats), it DOESN’T drag on for the first 20 minutes like the first one.

        About James Spader as Ultron…boy, was he having fun. He sure is sinister and evil, but you can still notice Spader’s trademark kinkiness, you know? DELICIOUS!

      • Izzy says:

        I haven’t seen it yet, it doesn’t come out here until May 1st :( BOO! I’m seeing it in IMAX on May 2nd with a big group of my nerd comic Marvel-loving friends, because that’s how I roll, and my family are nowhere near as cool as me and don’t know cr@p about Marvel. Or comics. Or sci-fi or fantasy in general. Very depressing to be related to such a bunch…

      • t.fanty says:

        Izzy,

        I fully agree with what you’re saying. Ironically, the people that are jumping down my throat are doing to because they aren’t thinking my comments through and looking for the sound bite take away.

        To piggyback on you: of clouds they are fools using their limited vocab and hollywood life experience to classify women. But, instead of acting like these are isolated assholes trying to take down womanhood, we should consider how fandom (which are predominantly female) tend to think: I love this character – who should she be f*cking? There is a whole overt sexual commodification that gets raised by every late night talk show host who wants to whip out fan art, but when these two dumbasses walk right into the mess, all the fangirls freak out, without having to bother thinking about their complicity in objectification.

        I come to this site because I enjoy the engaging and silly objectification of men that we ALL participate in here. So, I can’t judge them without being a hypocrite.

      • Eve says:

        @ Izzy:

        Now I’m jealous that you are going to see it in IMAX (we don’t have them here where I live — just one they call “Macro X 3D”, but I think that’s just to ask more for the ticket as I see no difference from the other screening rooms).

        I can’t wait for you guys to see the movie. I’m biting my tongue here not to spoil anything. The trailers really don’t show much from what really matters. They are hiding the best, believe me.

      • A.Key says:

        @Fanty
        “we should consider how fandom (which are predominantly female) tend to think: I love this character – who should she be f*cking?”

        But what’s wrong with that? Is sex somehow shameful? You’re equating sex and passion with offensive abuse and degradation. It’s not the same. Female fans talking about who they want to be Widow’s boyfriend is completely different from Evans&Renner calling her a whore.

        Everyone thinks about sex and who they want to fck. All of us. That’s normal. But what’s not normal is trying to offend and debase another for any aspect of their sexuality.

        I mean, I don’t CARE if Black Widow fcks a different guy every night – good for her, her business, I don’t care. I’d never insult her for it nor think of her as somehow beneath me for that, which is what these two are doing.

      • Izzy says:

        @A.Key, there’s nothing wrong woth a woman, fictional character or real, sleeping with whomever she wants. The problem lies in our culture of villifying women for having and enjoying sex, and treating those women as “less” because of it. Which is basically what happened in that ridiculous interview, and the journo conducting the interview was so very much a part of that. The whole thing just ticked me off.

        Fanty’s point, about “I love this character, who should she be f-ing,” is perfectly illustrated in what happened in this interview. The female character is immediately marginalized, in a sense, because she is perceived as having to be paired with someone, instead of being able to stand on her.

      • A.Key says:

        @Izzy

        You make a great point, it’s true what you’ve written here.

        I guess I just don’t think that pairing a female character with someone necessarily means marginalizing her. I don’t think anyone believes Black Widow cannot stand on her own. I really believe every fan thinks of her as a strong capable woman who can stand on her own. But they want to pair her up with someone equally strong and capable. I don’t think having a partner makes a woman somehow less strong and independent, so I don’t see anything wrong with shipping, pairing up fictional characters, etc.

        I agree though that the journo was very much a part of the put-down, but not because she asked the question, but because of the way she responded after those two idiots gave their answers.

    • Samtha says:

      There are plenty of ways to show Tony’s d*ckishness without resorting to rape jokes.

    • V4Real says:

      @T. Fanty. Owning the hell out of the voice of reason through all this let’s just crucify them without knowing the intent or what might really be going on. You won the internet not just today but for the week.

      • Fatty Magoo says:

        @T. Fanty yes to every single word you said!!

      • Kitten says:

        I’m with you, V4Real. Critical thinking FTW.

      • Valois says:

        @4Real
        Evans/Renner intention was to criticize fandom and how it objectifies women- is that your point? (Sorry for asking, not a native speaker.)
        I doubt that. It’s just a more constructive discussion we can start based on the controversy.

  21. AntiSocialButterfly says:

    Poor, poor little wounded man-boys are sorry they revealed their inner misogynists. Apologies not accepted.

  22. Skins says:

    I doubt too many people are saying “I have to see this movie cause Jeremy Renner is in it.” Same with the other guy. These type of movies sell themselves. I wouldn’t know who Chris Evans was if I bumped into him on the street

  23. lizzie says:

    chris evans will be in marvel sanctioned rehab after this press tour. he is high off his ass.

    • PennyLane says:

      It could be an addiction to prescription medications: doesn’t Chris Evans have generalized anxiety disorder?

      Too much Klonopin and/or Buspar with a bit of Ativan mixed in can make a person seem drunk. Someone on a press tour might be taking them every day to deal with all those interviews…with those meds you build up a resistance, and it can be easy to overcompensate and accidentally take too high a dose.

      • Izzy says:

        Whatever he’s been taking, he has definitely been all lit up during this tour. I’m generally oblivious to someone being high until it’s REALLY obvious, because I have NO experience with drugs, but even I’m noticing it. That’s how bad it’s been.

  24. Helen says:

    Goddamn, this promo trail is turning into a giant heap of MESS. Disappointing, disgusting and infuriating.

    • Izzy says:

      Complete, utter trainwreck. It’s astonishing, really. Marvel rarely puts a foot wrong, to see something of theirs unravel so quickly, it’s kind of bizarre. Some serious hair-pulling and screaming right now at Marvel HQ. As in, Feige pulling on his hair and screaming “why did we let these idiots go out there for us?!”

  25. ClaireB says:

    They slipped . They made a mistake. They said something they shouldn’t have, yes. The relationship between the audience and the actors has shifted so much this past years with the rise of social media, we don’t want to just love their work anymore, we want to looove them, and we want to love them exactly the way we want. They have to woes us, to make us laugh every time they appear on anything, but not too much, because then it’s just a ploy to make us buy more things! They have to be charming, sexy, smart but never vulgar or too serious because let’s face it, they’re just actors right? .. they have to be able to cope to any situation with extreme responsability, and never never slip. Because we, as real people, we have that right of being tired, stupid, or drunk without someone shooting “rehab”.
    But hey…they wanted it right? And nevermind all the happiness they bring on screen or off, they made a mistake, time to stack those wood logs! We were fooled! They are the definition of evil ! We are going to make them pay for loving them.
    And yes, some actors just seems to get it right all the time, without even trying. Like the rest of the population, it’s a minority.

    I think it’s my first rant ever. Yeaaaah.

    • Nayru says:

      I partially agree with this. It’s exhausting how frequently actors say offensive statements that reflect poorly on them as people. It’s imposible for me to keep up with. I’ve decided I’d rather not base the media I watch on how likable, non-repugnant the actors on. Unless I find out about something really awful, but then I’d be avoiding their work because the association ruined the enjoyment not to make a statement.

      I was watching How I met your mother last not and got angry just at the mention of loving Annie Hall. I can’t think of Woody Allen films and not get angry now.

    • Naddie says:

      I kinda agree with you. There’s nothing they can do anymore, although Renner’s words were terrible. I’d even agree with you completely if that was the first time these two had ever said anything sexist, but unfortunately , it wasn’t. Still, your point is pretty interesting and valid.

    • icerose says:

      they get paid enough to get it right

    • Izzy says:

      You make an interesting point, and valid on one level. Here’s another take on it: THEY WERE ON THE JOB. Seriously, they’re actors, and part of their contract is to go out and promote their movie. They were working, and while they were working, while they were representing the company that pays them, they behaved in a really lousy manner and said some rather offensive things. In the real world, people get fired for that. So really, they’re kind of getting off easy.

      • Annaliese says:

        Absolutely agree with this. If this is the way they behave while working, I’d hate to be a female on a set with them.

    • Maria A. says:

      Thanks for this comment. As they adage goes, He who is without sin…etc. etc.
      Ain’t no perfect people in this world.
      People foul up and hopefully learn from their mistakes.
      So one expects Renner and Evans have reined it in a bit…and perhaps the folks at Marvel will not also cram such a punishing schedule onto their actors next time, but give them a little breathing space so they aren’t carrying on interviews strictly on fumes. I know I’d be kind of punchy after such a punishing promotional schedule and say something unpleasant, probably to an interviewer who was being a sexist dork. I take after my Grandmother: I can be a firebreather sometimes and do not suffer fools gladly.

  26. belle de jour says:

    When things like this happen, I always want to have a gander at the equivalent of the leaked Sony emails: what are the film’s behind-cameras saying to each other? What sort of jaded observations and sad scramblings are going on? Yet I know the damage control reactions can be every bit as cynical & disingenuous as Mr. Renner’s ‘apology,’ and probably every bit as predictable.

    It remains amazing to me when people trained and paid as professionals to pay extreme attention to ‘how they come across’ either don’t know or don’t care how they come across.

  27. Adrien says:

    Evans is slowly transforming into Tom Cruise on Ophrah’s couch. Renner and the character he played in North Country are the same person.

  28. Suzy from Ontario says:

    I used to like Renner, but lately I can’t stand him. The things he’s said about his ex-wife/baby Mama and now this? I think his true colours are showing and they aren’t very pretty. That apology was offensive in itself…like saying Hey, if you are offended by what I said about a FICTIONAL character, then you’re an idiot. He thinks he’s so smart, but he is coming about as a total douchebag

  29. Jess says:

    Evans’ is definitely the better apology. And at this point I’m actively anti-renner and any movie he’s in.

  30. Kerry says:

    Pointed with Ruffolo I thought he was better than that. Well, I guess all of them are messy and weirdo horrible in someway. I guess because they are superheroes and I’ll be honest I couldn’t really tell the difference between how they pretrade themselves in their images, I expected better. I was fooled.

  31. Miss M says:

    There is something off with this whole press tour. If you watch the main press junket for the LA premiere, you will notice how nervous (and dare I say unprepared?!) these actors were for the questions. They were all so relieved when the questions were directed to Joss. One thing is to keep the plot line a mystery , another thing is not to answer anything or answer-not answering. What’s going on? Are you afraid you won’t pull off furious 7 box office even thought you have a more famous cast?

    I will again compare the press junket with furious 7 (another major franchise). They all knew they would be asked questions about Paul, they knew people would ask about the plotline and they all handled so well, even Michelle who could not talk about Paul would crying said this and apologized for it. They were well prepared for their press junkets even if they were tedious.

    My questions are: what’s going on behind the scenes, Marvel?! Why can’t actors be prepared and give something about the plot to tease the audiences to go? Selling your cast as a “big family” actually works for furious franchise because they are friends and have been working together for over a decade.

  32. H says:

    I’m surprised that Ruffalo acted that way, really surprised. They should have paired Ruffalo with RDJ, they have great chemistry and as the older actors in the group, seem more focused and mature. Science Bros FTW!

    However, Renner can crawl in a hole and die. I met Chris Evans’ brother in NY, when he was on a soap. He used to be a big drinker and was alot of fun, until he hit a certain amount of alcohol in his system, then he wasn’t so fun and nice. I wonder if Chris is like that? Whatever, Chris shouldn’t be drinking on the job and putting him with Renner was a stupid move, Marvel.

  33. Shaylee says:

    “…Just poking fun during an exhausting and tedious press tour.” Seriously, Renner? Such a diva. Premieres, after parties and press spaced out over a two week span… How do you survive?!

    • Miss Jupitero says:

      That was what I thought: Is this not part of your job, Mr. Renner? I have three deadlines on top of each other right now which give new meaning to tedious, but you will never hear me complain. In fact, that was me bragging. Let’s see you do some real work for a change. I’m beginning to think you are waaaaaaayyyy overpaid.

    • RightOnRhonda says:

      I don’t even think Renner went to every premiere, just Los Angeles and London. Right? I guess if anyone wants to complain about an exhausting press tour, it should be RDJ.

  34. Irene says:

    Gotta love Renner’s “apology”, he hit every sour note it’s possible to hit. He implied that anyone offended was being overly sensitive, he dismissed people’s valid outrage over his misogyny using the old ‘not a real person, doesn’t effect real life’ bull, and then he said it wasn’t his fault because junkets are boring. What a colossal tool.

    Evans doesn’t get a pass either, but at least he wasn’t a total sleeze when people called him out on his behavior.

    And I don’t understand why people keep saying Tom Hiddleston would have made this press tour any better. He’s not flawless either. Way too fond of the ‘whining c*nt’ line in Avengers 1.

    And let’s pour one out for Mark Ruffalo, who I always assumed would be the least likely to be gross and offensive. Also, I keep seeing people defending Elizabeth Olsen for the whole ‘G*psy’ thing by saying she doesn’t know any better. No, I’m sorry, I’m as American as she is and I know enough to know it’s offensive. And you’re telling me the woman didn’t at least read the wikipedia page on Romani people when preparing to play a Romani person? She knew damn well she shouldn’t use the word.

    Really quite shocked that Hemsworth is the only one left who isn’t controversial. Well, him and Sebastian Stan.

    • Alicia says:

      Same here. Renner has been an ass for a long time, I expect nothing smart from him. Give it a couple of years he is going to crash and burn in a spectacular way. Evans has always been a douche frat bro. RDJ has always been an arrogant SOB who thinks he’s the smartest, best-looking guy in the room when he’s anything but.

      But I am super – SUPER – disappointed in Mark Ruffalo. I honestly thought he was better than that. I know it doesn’t mean a damn thing but I just unfollowed him on Twitter. I am horribly disappointed in his behavior.

    • Annaliese says:

      I have this icky feeling I’m going to wind up getting flamed to a crisp for this, but… I did not know that the term “gypsy” was offensive to anyone. (I didn’t know that the term “Anglo” was offensive to anyone either–I’m from New Mexico, and it’s a neutral descriptive term there, but I found out the hard way that it was VERY offensive to a friend from New York–yikes!) Could someone tell me more about this? I do know about the camps, and I know that the people I’ve thought of as gypsies are Romani (and I believe called “the travelling people” in Ireland), with a background that goes back to, I think, India? So I have some clue about history, but obviously haven’t kept up as well as I ought. When did the word start carrying such a negative connotation?

      As far as Renner and Evans go–Evans strikes me as really dumb but basically well-meaning, but knows nothing about women. Renner is not someone I would care to associate with.

      As far as the movies go, though–I thought Black Widow was wearing an arrow necklace in Winter Soldier because she was with Hawkeye. So now she’s with Banner? Is there any comment on that in the film?

      • Evie says:

        @Annaliese: You’re not alone. As an American I had no idea that “gypsy” is an offensive term. I also plead ignorance as to when it became offensive/unacceptable. It’s always been widely used to describe people who are bohemian, travel and tell fortunes and not in a pejorative way – although I’m sure some people used it as a slur. In Ireland they are referred to as “travellers” or “tinkers.” I am surprised though that Ruffalo kept chanting the word after Norton enlightened them and told them it was a slur. Ruffalo seems to be very genuine, nice and down to earth. These actors seem to be forgetting that they’re on the clock on this press tour.
        Meanwhile, I haven’t heard one thing about Hemsworth this time around. Guess he’s the forgotten man since he’s not made any missteps.

      • Maria A. says:

        Me either. This is the absolute first that I’ve heard that ‘gypsy’ is offensive. And I doubt anyone I work with in Washington, DC would consider it an offensive word or have heard that it supposedly is. Go figure.

      • Lucrezia says:

        I’m not Roma, but I was aware it could be offensive, so I’ll do my best to explain how/why. Please don’t take this as a flame – it’s not meant that way at all. As an Aussie, I sometimes get confused/surprised when certain things are considered offensive in the US, so I totally relate to your innocent confusion.

        First off, I have a question: if you think “gypsy” is the correct word to use for an ethnic group … why on earth are you NOT using a capital letter? That should be a red-flag. I know it’s subtle, and you all did it without thinking, but that’s kind of the point – by dropping the capital letter, you’re subconsciously dismissing the Roma as “a people”, and equating it with a lifestyle.

        Other than that, there’s a bunch of historical problems with the word.

        a) “Gypsy” (as a people) is used to refer to several unrelated nomadic groups, e.g., the Roma (south Asian origin), Travellers (Irish/Scottish origin), Sea Gypsies (southeast Asians who live on houseboats). So it can be problematic in the same way that it’s wrong to equate all “natives”, or all “Asians”.

        b) Linguistically the word is derived from Egipcian/Egypcian – which means exactly what it sounds like: gypsies = Egyptian; people from Egypt. But more recent research says they probably didn’t. So the original meaning of the word is just plain wrong.

        c) The word “gypsy” (meaning nomad) is derived directly from Gypsy (meaning certain peoples). In America it has romantic connotations, like “wanderer” or “bohemian” (which is actually an archaic French word for the Roma). But elsewhere, it’s got negative connotations, like “vagabond”, “drifter” or “vagrant”. You’ll find them all lumped together in the thesaurus but they don’t mean quite the same thing.

        Anyway, regardless of whether your connotations are positive or negative, it’s problematic to start describing certain things/behaviours as “gypsy” because you’re just reinforcing stereotypes. How does it sound if I say “Native Americans are spiritualists, in tune with nature and fierce warriors”? It’s all positive, but I sound borderline racist because I’ve narrowed an entire People down to 3 stereotypical traits. If you’re thinking about Gypsies as “wandering, free-spirited fortune tellers” then it’s a heck of a lot better than thinking of them as “dirty thieving scum” but it’s still thinking in stereotypes.

        d) Roma caught by the Nazis were branded with the letter “Z”, which stood for Zigeuner, the German word for “Gypsy”. (That’d make anyone a bit touchy about the word.)

        e) The word “gyp” (to swindle someone) or “gypped” (to get ripped off) are based on stereotypes about Gypsies, and are definite slurs, equivalent to “Indian-giver”. (Just another reason to be touchy about the word.)

        f) It’s often used as a pet name in the US. Heard of a cat/dog/horse called “Gypsy”? Probably. Heard of a cat/dog/horse called “Indian” or “Mexican”? Almost certainly not. An animal might be called India or Mexico, but it’s incredibly rare to call it after a People … except in this case. It’s not like “nomad” or “wanderer” is a common pet name, so you can’t say they meant a lifestyle rather than a people. I have no clue what is going on here, but it’s worthy of some side-eye.

        Okay, that was a huge list of reasons, but I don’t mean to say every single Roma/Traveller/etc is going to agree with every single one of them. It’s a complicated topic. Some happily self-identify as Gypsy, others recognise some problems but want to reclaim the word, others are going to get horrendously offended.

      • MtnRunner says:

        Lucrezia, thank you. I was hoping that someone would share more of the background of why gypsy has become such an offensive term in parts of the world. As you noted above, here in the States it does have a romantic overtones and positive connotations as opposed to vagrant or drifter, which is often associated with criminals. This would explain the use of “gypsy” by Americans in the positive “bohemian, freethinking, nomadish” context. Having no history with the Roma, it’s understandable why Americans may be unaware of how the they have been viewed by other people groups. We have no qualms with them.

        I feel like we Americans are often the target of the offenses due to our lack of understanding the complicated relationships between countries so much older than ours that have thousands of years of history between them. So much of this just comes down to awareness of what the term means to others. I know that once educated, I’d try and avoid using a particular word if I knew it would distract others from understanding what I’m trying to communicate. I wonder if EO will take what she learned on Norton and either use the term with a disclaimer or not use it at all since she has an international audience.

      • Lucrezia says:

        You’re welcome :) After all that typing, I’m glad someone read it!

        (I started researching to double-check my facts and then got carried away and shared it all. I definitely did NOT know all of that off the top of my head.)

    • MtnRunner says:

      It’s pretty presumptuous to assume what someone should know when you don’t have the same personality, background, experiences, education or friends as another person dontcha think?

      • Irene says:

        I assume you’re taking offense to me saying “I’m as American as she is and I know enough to know it’s offensive”? I’ve seen a lot of people dismiss her words simply because ‘she’s American’ and ‘doesn’t know any better’, and my point was that being American is no excuse.

        Someone may want to give Olsen the benefit of the doubt, but I do not. Even if she went through the entire lengthy audition and casting process without ever Googling Scarlet Witch or Romani people (which I think if very unlikely), there’s been enough backlash about her use of the word G*psy and the white-washing of the character in the past that I think it’s impossible Olsen didn’t know.

        And the reports from the show taping indicate that Graham Norton made it clear right from the start that G*psy was offensive, and the 3 of them continued to say it and giggle through the rest of the show. So. No free pass for Olsen this time.

      • Eve says:

        For crying out loud, people! They (the twins) are not Roma/Romani. There is not a single reference to Romani people in the movie.

        They (Pietro and Wanda Maximoff) come from a slavic FICTIONAL country called Sokovia!

      • Irene says:

        @Eve

        Fair enough, but the comic book character is Jewish/Roma, and since the movie hasn’t been released in the US yet, a lot of people don’t know that they’ve had a race-lift yet.

      • Eve says:

        @ Irene:

        I will judge them (Ruffalo, who I love; Renner, who I detest and Olsen, to whom I’m indifferent) when I see the video. I promise you that.

        I, however, don’t call what Marvel did “white-washing”. Like The Mandarin in Iron Man 3, they changed some aspects of the character to AVOID being racist (the original, comic book Mandarin is a stereotype of Chinese/Asian people, its’s blatantly racist) so I enjoyed that “twist” (The Mandarin being a front for the actual villain, a figure who embodied all Western countries’s fears regarding terrorism).

        There’s a very thin line Marvel can walk when it comes to these particular characters (the twins) because Fox owns the rights to X-Men. Marvel can’t use the word “mutant”, for instance (neither they can mention Magneto is their father). They used the word “enhanced” in Age of Ultron instead.

      • MtnRunner says:

        Irene, your response illustrates my point.

        You’re not trying to understand how someone could have a different lens through which to view a situation when everyone is a product of their culture, family, personality, temperament, individual sensitivities, exposure to other socioeconomic groups / nationalities, etc. It’s easier to judge another person (and feel better about ourselves) than it is to seek to understand them and why they responded the way they did.

        Gypsy here in the US refers to someone who is a wanderer, someone with an itinerant or unconventional lifestyle. It isn’t derogatory. People here proudly call themselves gypsies as a badge of honor for living life on their own terms. I presumed that EO used the word in this context; turns out, her character is described as the daughter of a gypsy. Even if Scarlet Witch wasn’t written as such, I don’t think you should hold an American to the same standard as a European, for whom the word carries a different meaning. As we said above, context matters. Culture matters too.

        The Norton show cut that particular part of the show from the video, so most of us will never get to see the exchange and judge for ourselves. We’re getting secondhand accounts from viewers, which may or may not be accurate. What I have heard is that EO was unaware it was a slur and didn’t participate in any further use of the word. Maybe you can’t give her a pass under those circumstances, but I certainly can.

      • Irene says:

        @Eve (You probably won’t see this, I know it’s late)

        There’s a difference between making a problematic villain like The Mandarin white to ease the racism of the character, and erasing the fact that heroes Wanda and Pietro are the children of a Holocaust survivor who were raised by Roma. I know Marvel doesn’t have the rights to Magneto nor can they say ‘mutant’, but that doesn’t mean they had to cast two snow-white actors to play them. Sokovia is a fictional country, so there’s not reason they couldn’t have been Jewish, or Roma, or even Black or Asian.

      • Eve says:

        @ Irene:

        They didn’t make The Mandarin white — the character/the front doesn’t look white and was played by Ben Kingsley (who isn’t white).

        I see you have a problem with these two particular characters being played by white actors. Well, I don’t. Honestly, I fail to see why them being “snow-white” is a problem.

        *SPOILER AHEAD*

        They are not heroes in the beginning of the film. They’re orfans who resent Tony Stark’s warmongering (because of something that happened when they’re kids). They become Avengers throughout the movie.

      • Irene says:

        @Eve

        You’ll have to forgive me about the Ben Kingsley thing. I honestly couldn’t remember who played him, and I thought I remembered him being white. That’s my mistake.

        *SPOILERS*

        But my problem with the Maximoff’s being ‘snow-white’ is that of The Avengers, literally zero of them are POC’s. Marvel had a great opportunity to create some POC characters with their version of the Maximoffs, and they chose to make them white. It just would have been nice to have some POCs in the mix (and yeah, I know about the new team at the end. But having more than 2 POCs on the team wouldn’t have been a bad thing).

        And as for them starting out as villains… so did Tony Stark. But they were obviously going to end up part of the team, so it’s fair to call them heroes. It’s not like they were villains for several movies.

      • Eve says:

        @ Irene:

        I’m really tired now (it’s 00h06 here) so I have to go (eat, shower, sleep).

        Basically, I disagree with you about these particular characters. I think you’re barking at the wrong tree here — slavic Jewish people are white to me so I have no qualms about characters that are meant to be slavic being played by white actors (by the way, I personally don’t like using the term “snow-white”, that’s why I used it with quote marks…I find that slightly racist, to be honest with you).

        Marvel will have a stand-alone movie featuring a black hero (Black Panther) and that’s freaking huge.

        P.S.: By the way, I’m an olive-skinned Brazilian woman.

      • MtnRunner says:

        Eve, next time your companion comes to take you away from CB, please give them a hard, swift kick in the balls for me. We need your voice and saucy humor to inform and entertain. You and Fanty saved this thread today (yep, still Friday here).

        *blows kisses*

        Did some binge watching of Blacklist this eve and I think it’s safe to say that sexy Spader is gonna OWN ME.

      • Eve says:

        @ MtnRunner:

        :*

        James Spader is everything.

      • Sandy123 says:

        The gypsy reference was edited out of the show. I watched that episode the other day and it was gone.

    • A.Key says:

      Why are we equating Olsen’s gaff and these two assholes calling a woman a whore?

      Olsen probably did not know gypsy was insulting to anyone. So what, it’s ok, she learned. If you have no contact and experience with Europe and the way Roma people are treated in Europe, you probably do not know what’s offensive and what’s not. Fine, you learn and move on.

      But these two. Don’t tell me these two idiots don’t know what whore means or how offensive it is to call a woman a whore. No excuses for them.

      PS. No, Hiddleston’s not flawless, but he’s diplomatic and smart. He knows how to act and how to weave words in order to remain polite and PC regardless of what he personally thinks or what he’s being asked. Therein lies the difference and thus you have better PR.
      Here’s a similar ridiculous interview and see how he handles it intelligently. Imagine if Renner or Evans had to answer these questions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZUHCyjvRMA

      • Miss Jupitero says:

        I have ragged on TH in the past for his puppy dog ways, but he is smart and gracious, and I cannot imagine any context in which he would willingly trample on anyone’s feelings or make excuses for crappy behavior (E.g., “he’s a frat boy”) He was brought up well, and I suspect he actually is a feminist. As in, for real. If that his Eton Polish, then we need to figure out how to bottle it or something.

  35. ickythump says:

    If Renner keeps this up he might have to start begging for “tedious” press tours in the future – he’s a liability – he’s not a big enough name to be indulged ad nauseum.

    • Flan says:

      He’s only on this tour because some idiot cast him as Hawkeye a few years ago.

      Have no idea why and I hope Hawkeye will be recast or skipped in future stuff.

  36. jammypants says:

    “Ahhh. I’ll be self-flagellating in the corner. I’m sorry.”Ahhh. I’ll be self-flagellating in the corner. I’m sorry.”

    LOL we all know Evans too well. He’s just so darned frank. I hope he becomes more proactively feminist after this, but I highly doubt it. He’ll probably drink himself into a corner from anxiety from being stupid.

  37. Kristen says:

    While I agree that what they both said is bad, I don’t understand why no one is laying any blame on the journalist for asking a REALLY gross and leading question. Renner took the bait and ran with it, but the journalist essentially asked them, “Hey what do you think about her ‘questionable’ behavior?”

    If either of their characters had been going from one woman to another, that question would have been framed in a completely different way.

    • Izzy says:

      Agreed, and I’ve been saying this for two days now! The journo was just as much a part of this cluster!

    • Eve says:

      @ Kirsten:

      Me neither.

      The discussions over Pajiba seem more reasonable than these clusterf*cks here.

  38. aquarius64 says:

    Marvel is afraid the box office will take a hit.

    • Eve says:

      I doubt it. Based on the number of people who attended the same screening I did (and there were even more people for the following screening, around 11:30 p.m.)…I don’t think they are worried about a couple of bad interviews.

    • Mia4S says:

      It depends on what box office they’re looking for. Will it make a ridiculous amount of money? Of course! Opening weekend record? Duh! So what’s the next goal? Challenge the big boys: Titanic and Avatar. However so far the reaction is not nearly as positive as it was to the first one (not even close, even those who love it note it is darker) and that cuts repeat viewing. That means no overall record. However that’s not PR’s fault, that’s the movie.

      • Eve says:

        @ Mia4S:

        It won’t be the movie’s fault. It will be the audiences’ then. Because “Age of Ultron” has a better plot (the villain actually has valid reasons), better dialogues and the visuals are perfect (special effects team did a much better job than the first one’s).

  39. yogapants says:

    Sounds like Gary Oldman wrote Renner’s apology.

  40. Katarina says:

    I don’t think either of them are truly sorry. And neither of them do it for me. Just sayin

  41. Sof says:

    I think Evans is aware his predominantly female audience.

  42. Veronica says:

    This is one of the most cringe-worthy tours I’ve seen them do yet. Even RDJ, who is usually good at being The Company Man, is a mess. Delusions of invincibility, maybe?

    This is the second time Renner has done a non-apology over a sexist remark, so my assumption is that he really is a total twatwaffle. Evans is…well, he’s not much better, but at least he owned it.

    • tabasco says:

      1. Twatwaffle

      2. Evans strikes me as the kid in high school who doesn’t really feel popular, so he just goes along with whatever “cool kids” he’s around at the moment. He doens’t seem to know where his own center is.

  43. poiupp says:

    I don’t know, I watched the video and I don’t understand the outrage because I can only see the reason that it’s funny, even the lady interviewer chuckled about it. Taken out of context someone calling someone a slut or a whore definitely isn’t funny because it’s possible to imagine that someone is serious about denigrated someone. But here I find it impossible to think that way, here the joke is about the rueful pain of “awwwwww man! Goddammit! She could have chosen one of us dammit. Awww man she’s a _______ awww.” If it were two girls in the same situation making off-the-cuff insulting comments about a guy they find hot who didn’t pick them I’m pretty sure I would find it funny in exactly the same way.

    • eatingpie says:

      Are you serious? The fact that a person’s immediate reaction to being shot down (as you’re saying) is to call someone a “wh*re” or a “sl*t” (even if it’s “jokingly”) already tells me that person is just an offensive, entitled asshole. So no. I do see why people are pissed about this comment. Very distasteful on both Renner and Evan’s part, as well as the interviewer’s.

      • poiupp says:

        I’m sorry, I would also be unable to find it offensive if in this context it were two girls calling a guy a man-wh*re, a meathead, thinks with his pen*s or any other insult under the sun along those lines. It’s just you can sense immediately that the feeling behind it is “awww dammit…”.

        I guess it’s the same way when you witness insults between friends, it’s not offensive because you can sense the intention behind it is different.

        Anyway what I did find funny is that immediately after the interviewer says “Oh it seemed like Black Widow was going to end up with one of you guys…” Chris looks immediately downcast just before Jeremy makes his comment, because of course even though they’re fictional characters it has the real-life effect that Chris doesn’t get to make out with Scarlett. That would pain me too lol

    • Lucrezia says:

      I found it offensive because I have encountered that exact scenario … except I’m a Real Person (TM) and the guy was clueless enough to say it to my face, rather than behind my back.

      Me: Be friendly, talk innocently to group of males I considered friends.
      Male: Want to get a coffee some time?
      Me: You mean a date? I’m sorry, I’m not interested in you that way.
      Male (angry): You’re such a slut.
      Me: WT-absolute-F???

      Trust me, it wasn’t funny. It wasn’t “aww __ dammit”. It was creepy and aggressive, and I froze up because I had absolutely no idea how to react. (Black Widow would’ve probably had the presence of mind to kick them in the balls.)

    • vauvert says:

      But this is not two guys alone in a bar joking (and it would be offensive and crass there too, btw…) This is two professionals on the job. Being interviewed and knowing that they represent a billion dollar brand, talking about a female character that women of all ages look up to.
      I have heard all the excuses – they were joking, it’s about a fictional character etc. But here’s the rub:

      1. I don’t care if they talk about their mom, sister, neighbour, their ninth grade classmate who turned them down – it is rude to speak that way about a female, whether she is real or imaginary. The end.

      2. Again, this was in the context of work. Someone down thread was complaining that we focus so much attention on what two actors say when IRL on the job she encounters this sort of situation all the time. Well, duh. Those guys were speaking like this while at work. So yes, we should shut them down and call them on it, just like that commenter should do it at her job. Because you know what? We are the customer to whom these two guys are selling a product – the movie. They are the corporate spokespeople for Marvel and I for one strenuously object to hearing corporate spokespeople use these kinds of words. Not only that, but if we object when two celebrities use derogatory terms maybe, just maybe, other idiots in corporate suites and offices and factory floors will think twice about using similar terms.

      3. Same commenter down thread was suggesting that if kids and teens look up to these two as role models then the parents are not doing their job. Guess what buttercup?? Celebrities are seen as role models in general, despite what you or I personally think. That is why they are paid millions to be models and brand representatives by every company around, from luxury products to telecoms to car manufacturers. Celebrities sell because people of all ages listen to them. And kids happen to be more impressionable than adults, which is why cigarette advertising is now banned in the Western countries…

      Personally I hope that Marvel will invest in some training for their actors in the future or replace them with people who can at least act like decent human beings. For the amount of money these guys make, they surely can learn that calling anyone a slut or a whore is NOT acceptable no matter how exhausted they are from the difficult job of being flown first class around the world to events for a week.

  44. tabasco says:

    No way Marvel’s PR wrote Renner’s “apology.” Given the statement he put out, they’re probably more pissed at him now than they were yesterday.

    And Jeremy? You’re playing the low rent superhero and getting paid a zillion dollars to party all over the world first class-style, with the occasional *enormous obligation* (eyeroll) to open your mouth and talk now and then. You have no clue what exhausting and tedious work really is.

    He was never on my list or radar to begin with, but now I’ve gone from “Renner Who?” to “Oh, Renner, The Asshat.”

  45. BritAfrica says:

    Fascinating isn’t it? Women getting upset over name calling of a cartoon character but will not step in at work when they hear men making a sexist joke about a co-worker. They will most likely laugh right along with everyone else…

    I work in the financial city (Canary Wharf) which is male dominated, and see this behaviour all the time. So we see the fake offense over what some male ‘celebrity’ has said/done when it is happening all around them in the office.

    To be honest, I am really beginning to detest women and our reactions on blog sites. It’s as if we are losing our independence and adopting a ‘pack’ mentality. We have to insult at the same time, put down men at the same time, be cross at the same issues and be offended by the same things. If we are not offended, then we are against feminism.

    There is all this fake vitriol but the real aim is to terrorise the men we can’t reach. So we threaten ‘Behave the way we want or we will not buy your products’…etc…etc…

    This online bullying rhetoric is really only because in our own lives (work and home), the status quo remains the same. We choose to be silent to avoid arguments or draw the ‘wrong’ kind of attention to ourselves.

    We have worked very hard to get to where we are – it would be a shame if WE became the bullies…

    • Irene says:

      Wow, I’m loving all the victim blaming and mental gymnastics to turn women into the bad guys you’ve got going on here.

      Regardless of how a woman in the workplace responds to harassment (where there are potentially devastating consequences), there is an actual benefit to calling out celebrities on bad behavior. Do you see all the press this is getting? Do you see how many people are learning that calling women sluts and whores is going to get you in trouble? Nothing is going to change overnight, but this is a pointed sign to casual misogynists that people are getting sick of it.

      And ffs, calling two wealthy white men out on a couple of misogynistic slurs isn’t ‘bullying’.

      I think you should educate yourself on internalized misogyny. I think you’ll be pretty shocked at what you’re doing to yourself.

      • BritAfrica says:

        Hey! Don’t you dare attempt to talk down to me.

        Nobody cares how much ‘press’ this is getting. In the UK today the headline is about 700 migrants drowning off the coast of Sicily, not about what 2 ‘celebrity’ blokes said…etc…etc…

        ‘Victim blaming’…are you serious??? We are now calling a cartoon character a victim? Save your hysteria for the cases…real ones…that need them.

        As for me needing to ‘educate myself’….thank you so much for proving my point that women are no longer allowed to disagree without some nutter calling us names. Maybe you should educate yourself in how to conduct a civilised conversation without the need to resort to cheap insults!

  46. CidySmiley says:

    This whole press tour has been the biggest disaster. It’s like they all decided to shit their pants all at once and point fingers at each other. Well they can sit in their mess. Jeremy and Chris sexist remarks, Jeremy and Mark’s g-slur shout-off, and now RDJ’s weird racist remark against Inarritu. (When asked about his concept on Cultural genocide he said, “I respect the hell out of him. I think for a man whose native tongue is Spanish to be able to put together a phrase like cultural genocide just speaks how bright he is”).

    Just pull them the hell out of there. It’s been a disaster. Put a few of them in rehab, one of them needs to just go all together (cough the slug Jeremy cough) and the ALL OF THEM need VAST PR training. Good lord. It’s been fun guys, but go home, you’re drunk.

  47. Iheartgossip says:

    They wouldn’t have spoke the words, before fake apology; if they didn’t BELIEVE women are sluts. etc. So both win D-Bag of the ‘Net award. And? I AM SO BEYOND tired of the fake apology.

  48. Feebee says:

    Makes me wish for those halcyon days of the original movie’s press tour. Joss, find a way to stick Loki in the next one for 5 minutes…. It will make the promotion so much easier for everyone, just wind up Tom and let him go. No combo of Renner, Evans or Downey Jr make up for Hiddlesworth.

  49. Kelly says:

    They were joking about a fictional character. The attention this has gotten is a bit ridiculous. If people want to be outraged about something, there are plenty of outrageous things being committed against actual people.

    • Melly M says:

      It can be accepted in a society to call women sluts or not. The “fictional character”- excuse is so lame. Has nothing to do with that at all.

    • BritAfrica says:

      @ Kelly…

      Thank you! I thought I was the only one finding it difficult to believe all the fake hysteria…

      We should forget about making people we don’t know ‘set examples’ in our bid to ‘regulate’ their behaviour. We should do more to set examples in our own lives and make things unacceptable if we truly want them to disappear.

      • Melly M says:

        Is it really so hard to understand that more people will find it acceptable in their own lives to talk about women like this if movie stars do it without being called out for it?

      • BritAfrica says:

        @ Melly M

        Yes, it IS hard to understand because nobody made the ‘movie star/celebrity’ the standard bearer. At least I didn’t.

        I am not satisfied with these people being given the ‘responsibility’ to ensure that I am treated fairer, spoken about better…etc. I don’t measure what happens in my world by what these people say/do and I would imagine that the policy makers don’t either.

      • marshmellow says:

        @BritAfrica

        It’s not your world; it’s everybody’s world. And the world doesn’t care about what satisfies you; it is how it is.

        If you think these characters and these actors don’t have a significant impact on culture, you’re seriously deluded.

        But it’s especially true for kids who look up to these people and the characters they play as heroes.

      • BritAfrica says:

        @marshmellow

        Oh right…our children are now getting their morals by ‘looking up to’ these celebrities are they?? Then maybe we should just admit we’ve lost the plot.

        What happens around me IS my world and the children in my world are taught their morals/behaviours by those of us around them.

        The notion that it is from people that they have never met/will never meet…that they copy behaviours is utter nonsense. Children are more likely to be influenced by the behaviours of the people they actually KNOW in their everyday life and that is where the danger lies.

        No child is likely to turn up in school on Monday calling another a sl*t because they heard a ‘celebrity’ say it. They will however, turn up in school and say it because they heard Dad describe Auntie Mary that way.

        But let’s not tell ourselves that truth eh? Let’s remain deluded!

      • marshmellow says:

        @BritAfrica,

        No one alive has met Jesus or Buddha or Muhammad or Aristotle or Plato or Alexander the Great or Homer or William Shakespeare, yet their works and their behavior has had a profound impact on our culture. Modern day celebrities may not be that influential, but they are, in fact, influential. Parents and peers can be more influential in a kid’s life, but that doesn’t mean kids don’t listen to or mimic their idols. I’ve seen it happen. Numerous times. Hell, I quoted Buffy and Solid Snake when I was a kid, because they were my heroes. I took up kickboxing because I wanted to be strong like Buffy. And I was more likely to challenge my parents’ opinions than my heroes’ opinions. When I was in school, kids didn’t talk about what their parents or siblings did as the “cool standard.” They talked about Brittany Spears and Eminem.

  50. Nina says:

    I’m not a fan of public “apologies”, because they rarely come from a place of sincerity, and they don’t do anything to address why certain words are problematic. Some dismissive, condescending tweet is tossed out, and then all is forgiven. That’s stupid and doesn’t do anything to instil sensitivity and respect in people.

  51. Jellybean says:

    Actors should just shut up completely. Nothing but garbage spews from most of their mouths. They need to have the studios write what they say in interviews. Vapid. Self -centered. Needy. Insecure.

    Just close your mouths Hollywood.

  52. Abby_J says:

    I agreed in the beginning (and still do) that the statements were wrong and they shouldn’t have said it. I also agreed that their apologies, which I believe that neither of them actually wrote (but at least Renner’s sounds more like he might have than Evans does) were necessary. I also mentioned that one day Renner will regret his comments when his own precious daughter is older.

    All that said, the drama about this is starting to crack me up. I mean really, for two reasons.

    1. There are a surprising amount of comments on this above in the line of, “Chris was a jerk, but I love him, or I love Captain America, so it’s totally okay since someone wrote him a good apology. Renner? Oh he’s a pug and not as dreamy, and I don’t like him/Hawkeye, he’s obviously responsible for the whole thing and a great big jerk. Evans was just following his lead.” Yep. That’s solid judgement right there. We’ll forgive the guy we like.

    2. This whole thing happened while these guys were shilling for a movie based on comic books. Yes, there are some strong female characters in these stories, but lets be honest, it is pretty much an entire industry dedicated to women in tight costumes with their girly bits hanging out everywhere, being completely objectified by men. That doesn’t excuse Renner or Evans, but it dose make me question the indignant offense of people who say they aren’t going to see the movie now because of them, when there are many reasons to be offended by the subject matter before they even opened their mouths. Yes, in the movies too. We could probably fill a whole discussion with that subject.

  53. TotallyBiased says:

    Renner, you doubling-down douche. Bedhead, your interpretation of what he really meant was KIND, compared to what he came back with on the Conan show.
    http://www.polygon.com/2015/5/5/8552979/avengers-black-widow-slut-shaming-jeremy-renner
    And the comments section isn’t much better–derailed (deliberately, i’m convinced) into the “hey, just comic book character, why should we care?” track, despite the best efforts of several commenters.